• Welcome to TalkWeather!
    We see you lurking around TalkWeather! Take the extra step and join us today to view attachments, see less ads and maybe even join the discussion.
    CLICK TO JOIN TALKWEATHER
  • April 2024 Weather Video of the Month
    Post your nominations now!
Logo 468x120

TH2002

Member
Sustaining Member
Messages
3,483
Reaction score
5,589
Location
California, United States
Special Affiliations
  1. SKYWARN® Volunteer
A bit late, but some more stuff that proves Jarrell did indeed sweep away well-constructed homes. I also seem to recall someone posted some sort of survey report of Double Creek w/ labels showing how each home was constructed, but annoyingly I can't find it now:
Tor-1997My27Jarrell-EWX-dmg02.jpg

169-197-149.jpg
 
Last edited:
Messages
2,248
Reaction score
2,836
Location
Missouri
Loyal Valley damage pics, a few days late on its anniversary but oh well:

Loyal 9.jpgLoyal 10.jpgScreenshot 2024-05-13 at 01-03-35 Loyal 5.jpg (WEBP Image 2048 × 1442 pixels) — Scaled (48%).pngScreenshot 2024-05-13 at 01-03-41 Loyal 6.jpg (WEBP Image 2048 × 1434 pixels) — Scaled (48%).pngScreenshot 2024-05-13 at 01-03-47 Loyal 7.jpg (WEBP Image 1536 × 2048 pixels) — Scaled (41%).pngLoyal 12.jpgLoyal 13.jpgLoyal 14.jpgScreenshot 2024-05-13 at 01-04-45 Loyal 11.jpg (WEBP Image 2048 × 1536 pixels) — Scaled (48%).pngLoyal 8.jpg


In a couple of pics it looks like (in the background) an entire hillside was scoured. Pretty crazy. Also, the mesquites being debarked is wild, only other time I've seen that is with Bakersfield Valley.
 

andyhb

Member
Meteorologist
Messages
1,219
Reaction score
3,574
Location
Norman, OK
Damage pics from Ethridge, TN I've never seen before:

View attachment 27098


View attachment 27099


Footage of the tornado itself:




More pics here:




This tornado passed over the same area in TN that the 1998 "forgotten F5" did 3 years later.

Whoa, didn't know there was video of that tornado. Great find. Also mother of god that Loyal Valley tree damage is absolutely extreme.
 

A Guy

Member
Messages
180
Reaction score
368
Location
Australia
What’s the rationale again for purposely lowballing a tornado rating. Does it have to do with insurance or not wanting a town to be associated with an F5 tornado?
I think it's an engineering pedantry dominated mindset. The whole thing reminds me of that saying that "an expert is a person who avoids the small errors while sweeping on to the grand fallacy". In this case it's literally true, they try to account for every factor that could compromise the 'load path' while arriving at a figure that other evidence indicates is probably drastically wrong.

I don't know what the incentive is as it's one in that scientific community - not just the engineers, but some of the meteorologists as well. Though if you push them they'll admit that winds are probably much higher. For the engineers it allows blame to be shifted to builders at least.

One thing I've noticed that even though it's often tacitly admitted that EF DI determined winds are often not accurate, they are usually treated as such for the purposes of engineering and climatology. If it was admitted that higher speeds occur this would indicate the risk is higher than EF-speed based assessments would say. On the other hand, if someone obtained evidence of significantly higher winds for a given degree of damage, this could indicate that houses are more resistant than thought, which would be a good thing.

But overall it's a hard question to answer - you can't ask the people involved because they don't believe they are underrating tornadoes. That's why I think it's a mindset problem that will take some fresh minds or really decisive evidence to shift.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top